Episode 46 – with Dana Brooks

Welcome to Victim To Victory. The Personal Injury playbook the podcast to navigating the complex legal system after an injury. We bring you the expert insights and guidance you need to navigate the legal system with confidence. Help you make informed decisions and get the compensation you deserve. Don’t let insurance companies take advantage of you. This podcast is designed to empower you with the knowledge you need to protect yourself and your loved ones. So sit back, relax, and let’s start exploring the world of personal injury law together.

Welcome to Victim to Victory, where today we’re joined by Dana Brooks. Dana, is not only a partner at Fasig Brooks Law Offices, but she’s also an advocate, passionately committed to serving her community. She’s been recognized numerous times for her professional excellence and commitment to our clients, including being named a Florida legal elite and a top 100 trial attorney. Dana, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Lawrence, great to be here. Thank you for having me.

Oh, it’s our pleasure to have you. In full disclosure, Dana and I are in a lot of best practice and innovation groups together and we do travel the circuit talking nationally about culture and growing law firms. So thanks for being here, Dana.

Sure, sure. Thanks for making time.

Now, could you kick things off for us by telling us what drew you to the world of personal injury law?

It came and got me. I had been working for years on the defense side in the medical malpractice area. I was a paralegal a long time, 14 years, and then I did some other things, and eventually went to law school. And when I was in law school, I had to decide what I wanted to do, and I knew I never wanted to work for another insurance company again as long as I lived. So, I had to choose something else, and I also didn’t like time sheets and the idea of billable hours. So when I was still in law school, I got the opportunity to become, actually a partner in a 30 or 35-year-old established personal injury law firm.

It was just the stars aligned and that this opportunity was too good to pass up. It was it perfectly fit the things that mattered to me, which was helping people. Because one of the things I did before law school was I became a clinical social worker. It just everything, you know, the universe just cleared the path and I just walked down it.

So, being a social worker, how does that help you or hinder you in the practice of law?

It only helps in the practice of law. I noticed it whenever I was on the defense side. I did medical malpractice defense, and there is no more difficult animal God put on this earth than a doctor who’s been sued for his craft. And so, I had to kind of manage them, and manage all the emotions that came around, and because they take that quite personally. So I would have to try to keep them between the ditches. Make sure they were ready for deposition. Make sure they’re ready for trial. So my counseling came in a lot just in that regard.

Now, flip it to plaintiffs practice, good Lord the attorney and counselors, the counselors part of that, that’s you use that skill all day long. It’s much less technical lawyering than it is counseling, lawyering. People now come to us because they’re having a great day, they want to celebrate. They’re coming because something has happened to them, and they got thrown into a system that they feel that they have unequal power in less power, and they’re looking for somebody to stick up for them and get them through this and get them on the other side, and in our firm, we say we’d like to help them come back stronger.

That’s great. That’s so important to actually be able to empathize and help guide and counsel your client base, because we are called counselors at law. Sometimes, I think attorneys forget that. They think they’re just litigators, and they forget that they’re counselors and they’re supposed to actually try to help the people and empathize with them in their situation, which is very new to them. We do it every day, but it not every day somebody’s injured in a in a collision or construction accident.

No, there isn’t and they’re looking for someone to be a cool head. You know, they’re looking for some dispassionate person to help them get through this process and this system they never wanted to be in.

All right, so what are so many unexpected hurdles that your personal injury clients or victims face that we might know about?

You know, the two things I hear the most about is the property damage claim, and most people walking around don’t even know what you’re talking about when you use those two terms together, property damage. What does that mean? It means I have to get my car fixed and that’s the thing that’s most vexing to people, because, you know, our American idealism tells us suck it up. Go to work. Suck it up. Your work is your dignity. So, really that transportation to work is the biggest thing they need help with immediately. And, you know, sadly, if there’s no injury and there’s no lawsuit, a lot of times you don’t have lawyers who will help you navigate that.

So we try to do that just as a, first of all, as a concierge service to our existing clients. But also, you know, I don’t mind telling you that we’ve got a booklet they can download on how to deal with their property damage claims. So that’s number one.
Number two, is a lot of people work with their bodies, and they are self employed to a certain degree, so they don’t have pay time to go to all the treatment they need to go to. They may not even have health insurance or adequate, you know, auto insurance beyond their — in our area’s PIP, but they may not have the ability to get the treatment that they need, and first of all, that hurts them, hurts them in their lives, getting back to where they need to be if they can’t get the treatment they need, and it makes their case harder to pursue on their behalf and get the results that they deserve. So those are the two property damage and treatment.

Very, true. So, with the combination of law and social orders, we’ve talked about that a little bit. Does that shape the way you handle the case? Do you handle it differently than some other lawyers would?

I believe I do, for sure. I’m just oriented differently. I’m just oriented differently, I’m oriented to say — wait a minute, all this maybe bad behavior. Maybe you’re calling all the time, being very demanding of our staff. Maybe you are an avoidant personality. You’re not giving us all the stuff we’re asking for. Maybe you’re in denial. You’re not getting the treatment you need, or whatever.

I have been trained to know, wait a minute, that’s a symptom. That’s not a problem. That’s a symptom of the problem, which is this person doesn’t feel supported. This person doesn’t understand the process. This person isn’t getting communicated with the way that would allow them to feel comfortable with this process and are shepherding them through it.

So, I think it does help me. It alerts me to things, because so much bad behavior in the world that’s a cry for help, that’s saying I need something else. So if you can say — Okay, I’m not going to be offended by it, because that bad behavior is directed at me right now, and I can just say — wait, what’s going on here? What is the real need? I think that’s a big help, and that’s also a help with so much of what I do, which is the management part of the law firm. It’s not just serving direct clients, it’s just dealing with all these other people who are giving the direct service to the client and seeing how they are reacting to having to juggle 100 people’s problems when they’re in their best, not in their best days.

Around your practice, there’s probably one case that’s really stuck with you. Could you share that story and what you’ve learned from that experience?

Yes, I have a case that I handled that I for several years, got asked to go speak about to the first year towards class at our low our law school here, Florida State Law School. Because it just covered the universe of things. It was about a it was about a psychologist, a clinical psychologist who was treating a man who was trying to save his 25-year-marriage to the mother of his three children.

And long story short, that psychiatrist or psychologist ended up moving into, falling in love with my client’s wife, moving into his home, getting a divorce settlement, paying off all his debts with and didn’t think that he needed to come clean and have some accountability there. He kind of bowed up and I’m like, don’t do this, man.

I said, I had to abide by those same rules and I have the lawyer rules, the ethics. They’re very clear when someone comes to you as a marriage counselor, you do not run off with the wife. So let’s keep this out of the papers. Let’s keep this out of the courses and so that he did not and he so vigorously offended, defended it.

We had to go to court. It was outrageous, and this is getting in the weeds. If you’re not a lawyer, but if you have any interest in law, it’s the most interesting case in the world because of the way I had to plead it to not mess up the coverage, because all of the mental health people have a don’t have sex with a client, or I’m not covering your mess up provision.

So, it was just, it was just like the most intellectually interesting, but also factually interesting. I had an 11-hour evidentiary hearing on privileges, because we had husband wife privileges. We had doctor patient privileges. We had psychotherapy, all kinds of things. You just had so many things. And I represented, of course, the husband.

Now, the good news is he met a wonderful human being, and he lived happily ever after, and those two are still together, kind of deserving what they get, the other two but yes, I got asked to talk about that case because they covered so much when it comes to evidence, privilege, malpractice. And here’s the other thing, too, lawyers would be interested. They tried to move to dismiss it on the basis of a 1941 case about, you know, we don’t allow alienation of affection. And I said, no, this is professional malpractice. Okay, I’m not coming at you because you screwed around with my wife. I’m coming at you because you owed me a duty of care that you breached that caused me tremendous damages.

So, I had that case. I’ve been a lawyer two years, and I had to be lead counsel on that case, and it took about two years to try it. It was supposed to be a three-day trial. It ended up being a 10-day trial. Swore the jury in at 11:58 PM almost lost my whole jury pool because their summons expired at midnight. Jury Burdick came in a-week-and-a-half later at 11:58pm it was the weirdest trial in the world.

A jury verdict at 11:58 PM, my goodness. Well, I guess it turned out well for you and your client, though.

You know what, it’s another one of those interesting things, like they gave me a verdict. That’s what I get in this county that I live in, they’ll give you a verdict, but they’re stingy about it. So, I had some cost, and I had a OJ an offered a judgment that I beat, so, I got more money that way, but I didn’t get what I thought was the right thing to do. But this is another interesting thing, because I had this woman on the jury, and I didn’t know much about her, but the one thing she said was, I asked if she could follow the law, of course, and she said — Well, if your law is the same as God’s law, we’re good.

And I thought to myself, this shrink, marriage counselor, ran off with my guy’s wife. I got this, right, and at the end of the day. She’s the one who told everybody she was going to screw the whole verdict up if they didn’t agree to this nominal amount of money because she gets, her husband ran off from her and nobody gave her anything.

Oh, gee.

So, just to show you, jury selection matters.

Yes, it does. All right. So, what are some big myths about personal injury that you think need to be busted off so people could actually know the truth?

That we’re ambulance chasers, that all we do is settle cases from our yachts while we got these worker bees at the office. No one’s ever met a client. No clients ever talked to a lawyer. It’s just all a big sham. I could do it on my own, or my neighbor I play golf with, who did my will and trust could handle it just as well for me.

So, many myths that really, they denigrate as professionals, but they also they lend to the insurance company’s rhetoric about you don’t need them. Just deal with us on your own. You don’t need those people. They’re just going to take more of your money. You know, all that kind of stuff just endures to the benefit of the insurance company. And so, the people were always trying to correct that message.

I’d like to address a couple of those things. The first thing that people don’t understand, the national statistics show that if you hire a lawyer, you’re going to, on average, get three and a half times more money than you will if you don’t hire a lawyer. So, we have that. I don’t have a yacht. Thing I don’t know about you. Do you hang out on a yacht? I don’t have that luxury. I actually want — to go.

No, I don’t hang on a yacht. That’s sounds a good way to slip a disc at my age. I’m not going out on it.

And then also, you addressed a few other things about your choice of lawyer and how important that is. Now I tell everybody that I can walk green, although I’ve had, you know, so many jury trials, and I’m a certified trial lawyer in civil. I can take a tax case. I don’t know anything about tax law, but I can do that. So why would you hire an expert if it’s a criminal case, look for a certified criminal lawyer.

If it’s a civil case, look for an attorney that specializes in civil litigation. It’s amazing they’ll go to Mom Or Pops a divorce lawyer or the Jack of all trades down the street, and they’re doing themselves a horrific disservice.

Terrible, you know, that’s fine for that person to be your personal counsel, put you in touch with the right person for that. That’s what your buddy and your neighbor and your, you know, you know son in law or father in law do for you. But all these insurance companies in the personal injury realm, it’s no different where you are, up in New Jersey. It’s no different down here in Florida, these people that we deal with, these insurance companies, they know who the players are, and they know the ones who are in the game, and they grade how much they’re going to pay based on how formidable they believe you are as an opponent.

Can you go the distance? Are you somebody who settles only? Do you have a trial bench? Are you some you know person who’s not really in this game? And I know what you’re going to do is let this linger in your firm, because you don’t do this kind of law. You’re doing divorce, you’re doing criminal, you’re doing wills, trust, whatever. You’re going to let this case linger. And a case that lingers and is not moved aggressively as a personal injury case is a valueless claim. There’s nothing that’s that helps a plaintiff that has to do with delay and longer time and gaps in treatment. Because think about it, those jurors are just like we are the insurance adjusters, just like we are. If you’re not going to the doctor, are you hurt? Are you really hurt? Is this really what’s grown with you, or there’s something else that’s happened in the interim? Because I live and I know I kind of do this getting out of the shower sometimes. So is it that, or, you know, that you just went to the doctor after you did, or is it this auto accident 11 months ago that you treated for, you know, six weeks and never went back.

So it’s not a game. So, if it doesn’t make sense to you, it’s not going to make sense to an insurance adjuster or, ultimately, a jury.

And then we’re always battling with the insurance companies that are multi-billion dollars of advertising and trying to let people think that claims are fraudulent, but people don’t realize that the insurance companies are making so much money, you just look at a Super Bowl where every other commercial is an insurance commercial, costing millions and millions of dollars to put that on for their advertising budget, but they never want to pay a claim.

Telling everybody we’re the bad guy. No, that commercial cost more than you’re paying out in probably entire state.

That’s correct.

Some companies, yes.

What rights do injury victims have that may surprise them?

Oh, let’s see what rights to that may surprise — Well, in Florida, they may be surprised to know that the first $10,000 of their medical treatment is going to come out of their own insurance. We don’t have mandatory bodily injury insurance, so you kind of pay your own freight for the first $10,000 but you may know too that you can reserve part of that $10,000 for lost wages. A lot of people are very weary of personal injury lawyers and chiropractors, because they think we’re all in cahoots together, running a scam, and somehow, miraculously, whatever’s wrong with you, it’s going to take $10,000 of chiropractic care to fix it.

So that’s a red flag, you know, if that’s kind of thing is going on, because they need to be judicious about that precious amount of money. And if you are somebody again, so many people who get hurt on the roads. Think about it, who’s on the road all the time? It’s not you and me. We’re in an office. It’s the people who use their bodies to work. It’s the people who are cleaning the house. They are going to wait the tables, they’re going to lay the tile, that sort of thing.

So they’re on the road all the time. They’re getting hurt. They’re the ones who don’t have paid time off. They’re the ones who probably don’t have a big reserve of money. So, it’s important to go to a lawyer who knows what benefits are available to you, so they can reserve some of that money for your lost wages, so you can keep going.

So I can’t tell you how many times people jeopardize the true value of their case by borrowing money against it, because they are in such a bind. And of course, lawyers, I hope everybody understands, it’s unethical for us. We could lose our license and our ability to practice law in any case, if we violate our ethics, which are giving you money, even though we want to, so bad, give you the $200 you need to keep your electricity on.

I want to do it. I can’t do it, but what I can do is, you know, tell somebody you want to borrow money from against your case, what the case is worth what my assessment is. I don’t want to do it. When I practice, I have medical malpractice. I don’t allow my people to do those cases already so expensive and risky, I won’t allow them to make it harder to manage that it will be harder to manage because you have to pay so much money back on those cases, it makes it very difficult to get a settlement offer that you find palatable at that phase.

So yes, it’s hard. You have to go to somebody who knows what your benefits are. Can preserve them in a way that’s going to help you meet your immediate needs. That’s why you have to go with somebody who’s listening to you as a whole person, not treating you like a number. When I talk to somebody, if I’m settling their case, I’ll bring a financial planner to mediation to explain to okay, what are your needs? Do you need some cash to take care of some immediate stuff. Do you need some guaranteed income for a certain amount of time? Do you want to get into a home? Do we need to protect that home against some of your other benefits and make sure you don’t mess those two things up? It’s getting holistic lawyer, I think, is the answer to that.

So, for anyone listening who might need a lawyer, what other tips can you give them for picking the right one. We’ve talked about it a little bit, but what else can you give us?

You know, I don’t want to sell other lawyers under the bus who don’t do this, because you can get good care. You really can get good outcomes and good care by highly trained legal staff, case managers, paralegals, who’ve done this forever. And no, you may never actually meet your lawyer. Some people that doesn’t matter to them that we are in such a highly competitive business, we have to distinguish ourselves. And so, to us, it’s the personal touch, it’s the things that I said is, I’m going to help you get your property damage, even though that’s not anything anybody makes money off of. I know it’s the most important thing to you, and maybe you’ll be more compliant with going to the doctor and all those things if you’re not worried about your car and your livelihood and getting kicked out.

So to me, you have to look at the big picture and not just put people in a machine. So are you getting the kind of service that that makes you believe, whether it’s from a case manager or whether you get to talk to a lawyer like you would in my law firm? Are you getting the kind of service that makes you feel like you are being seen and heard as an individual, or are they treating you pretty much the way you think that insurance company is going to treat you.

So right after an accident, what should somebody do? What is the first thing someone should do to make sure they’re legally protected?

Around here in Florida, because our law enforcement doesn’t like to even come out and do exchange of information anymore, I would say, get a copy, take a picture of the other person’s driver’s license, something to identify them, and then start getting pictures of the damage and as much as you can. But the main thing is, we’re seeing so many hit and runs because law enforcement isn’t being called.

I got rear ended so bad, it sheared the back of my SUV like that. I mean, I was like, almost, I was stunned, and I thought for sure this person was just good, because we were in a flow of traffic. And I thought for sure this person would turn around to this off road behind me. They did not, just kept going and that happens more than you think.

So if you do, if this happened — this happened to my daughter over in Jacksonville. Somebody was trying to get by traffic and just hit her and just down the whole side of her SUV. So get all the evidence you can of who you’re dealing with, and then also, then get all the evidence of any kind of damage other license plates, in case you need to try to find these people for evidence, that sort of thing. But to me, the most important thing now is to do the things that the law enforcement used to do.

Now, as a counselor, you’re going to have some great insight on this. We all know that dealing with an injury is very difficult, not just physically, but also mentally. So, how important is it to have a mental health support person during this time?

I believe it is very important, and that’s why putting people with the right lawyers, matters, and I’m a firm believer in not discussing or introducing gender unless gender is relevant. But here’s the deal we’ve all lived in this world, testosterone is different than estrogen. Okay, I find that it’s harder for some of my male lawyers, especially my age or older to be able to meet some people where they are.

So I try to put people the right people like men whenever I did medical malpractice, I would find that men, if they had any problem with any kind of sexual function, any kind of thing like that, anything that made them feel less masculine, they like to talk to me. They didn’t like to talk to my male lawyers about it, so that part of the counseling comes into it, like, if we have a difficult client, sometimes you need somebody else to come in.

Good cop, bad cop, technically, that’s probably how you’re doing it, but what you really do is get a fresh set of eyeballs on it. I think you just have to meet. It’s just like they teach us when we’re in council, you have to meet the client where they are, start there.

Now, that’s a great philosophy. So looking ahead, what excites you about the future of personal injury law?

I don’t know if it’s good. I’m always excited. Lawrence, when we go to these meetings and they tell us about the future of 10 or probably 12 or 14, years ago, I was at a FJA, Florida Justice Association, or an American Justice Association, and they predicted the future. They said the future of law firms is corporate.

Corporate, you’re going to see instead of, you know, all these names, you’re going to see Pennington, Dean me, you’re going to see Guther, you know, that sort of thing, and here we are seeing exactly that. So now I’m sitting here and I’m going, okay, what are all the predictors saying? And now I’m hearing about hedge funds. I’m hearing about outside money. I’m hearing about non-lawyer owned and I’m telling you, even in Florida, as much as they think they buttress themselves against that, there’s going to be some work around. There’s going to be — somebody’s going to find some work around.

And I’m telling you right now our up here Tallahassee where a lot of things happen. They go to the First District Court of Appeal, and then, of course, it goes to our Supreme Court. Very different makeup than it was 10 o r12, years ago, very pro business, very open. Come on in here and make some money, talk to people. So, I’m most excited about that because you and I spend so much time in the organization, management, marketing of our law firms, we’re business owners who have law degrees, is the way I regard so many of us.

So I’m always looking at this share value, just like I’m looking at anything else on the balance sheet. How are you performing for me? Who wants to give me more for you than I value you at. So to me, it’s, it’s looking at the future of how money works in this in this country. I’m not sure I like it. You know, it’s all in the news about how poor red lobsters getting taken out by hedge funds. But, you know, maybe it was bread lobsters time. I don’t know. I don’t think we’re going to sustain this anymore. I’ll tell you this personal injury the margins are so big. There’s too many people interested. When you go to those meetings, don’t you get this, don’t you get this energy? You think all of these people who are here trying to sell us stuff appreciate what we are sitting on. What is happening here? And is this a redistribution of wealth? Is it taking it from the insurance companies, who took it from the people, to redistribute it back to the people? I mean, is that what we’re all doing, because there’s so much money, there wouldn’t be all those people in there. It’s like going to a discotheque when you go to some of these conferences. So, they’re trying to keep you jazzed up and energized and turned on and sold. Why? Because you have something they want, you know. So it doesn’t feel like law. It feels like some form of business where the witch that serve law cases.

And just for our audience, there’s only two states in the Union currently where non lawyers can own a law firm, and it looks like the wave of the future is to allow hedge funds and other monies owned law firms in various states. It’s just, it’s probably just a matter of time before that happens. But I’m actually a little more concerned with what’s going to happen with the collisions or wrecks because of the smart cars that are now being developed. I really think that the future of automobile collisions maybe not big rigs or motorcycles, but I think the automobile collision industry is going to dry up in probably about 15 to 20 years.

Yeah, the cars, I mean, they just are safer. When people get into accidents now, you know, it is, it is safer. I mean, that’s a good thing. But you know, you’ve got to think, as a business owner, what do you do? Where’s your bread and butter? What are you going to do? You got to diversify. That’s what I’m always trying to do, is you get so spoiled in the personal injury world because of the margins, but then you don’t want to slow down and or give any, you know, space. Why am I going to start a worker’s comp thing or social security when I’ve got just add another PIP. Well, that’s good. It’s going to max out. There’s only so many cases, and they’re getting fewer, and it’s costing more and more.
That’s another thing, these hedge funds, these hedge funds, these people are coming in with this outside money. They’re buying up our cases, and we have to buy them back from them. These are the people used to come to me, except for you got more power and you could get them on their phones and their handouts more than I can. So they’re my damn cases. I’ve earned them, but now I have to buy them back from you.
So, something’s has to give, you know, that I think what we’re doing, not now, is not sustainable. I think there’s going to be a bubble on it at some point.

Well, Dana, if somebody wants to find you or the Fasci Brooks Law Firm, where are you located?

We are located in Tallahassee, Florida. We have offices across North Florida, Destin and Jacksonville, but we’re primarily in Tallahassee. You can reach me personally. Dana D, A, N, A at Fasig F, A, S, I, G. Brooks.com and you can always call us, 850 77777 777d my personal cell, which I give to the universe, 850-766-2825, and my personal cell, which I gave to the universe, 850-766-2829.

So if anybody is in North Florida looking for an excellent personal injury law firm, please give Dana Brooks a phone call. Dana, thank you so much for your time.

You’re welcome. I enjoyed it good to see you again.

All right, thank you. Look forward to seeing you in the future.

Okay, bye, bye.

Thank you for tuning in to Victim To Victory the personal injury playbook. We hope you found today’s discussion insightful and helpful as you navigate the complex legal system. If you or someone you know suffered from a personal injury, don’t hesitate to reach out to us at 1-800-489-0004. Our team is here to help take you from victim to victory.

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